So Dan Meyer has got me on the defensive a bit.
I articulated my non-appreciative attitude towards television some time back, and he commented.
His recent post led me to finally articulate a bit more why I feel the way I do towards television. Here is the comment I left on his blog post…
Ok look, the TV thing is a big deal to me. I dislike television, pretty much in whatever form it presents. Oh sure, I spent years watching ER and other amazingly well put-together dramas. I can appreciate amazing cinematography, good script-writing, and the other oft-touted reasons to watch good tv.Truth is, this has nothing to do with my students and what they watch, this is about me and my family.
I do not watch television because I don’t like where my mind goes. If I have a covenant with my eyes, I have to be careful what enters, be it in front of a tv or a computer screen. Both can be dangerous.
The difference is the computer screen holds a benefit for my life. There is productivity there. Sure, there is entertainment, but I tend to avoid that as well.
I probably lead a fairly boring life, but I notice that when I let my daughter watch a fair amount of television it is harder for her to play imaginatively in the aftermath. When the TV is nicely turned off, she plays for hours without getting bored. And her props in this life play? Cardboard tubes and a check necklace, and a variety of stuffed animals.
I spent a lot of years on a couch watching television, I have no desire to return to that.
For me, and I reiterate that this is my deal, perhaps my problem, and I don’t impose it on anyone, I just think our society focuses a bit too much on celebrities, hence my blog post on Google Trends.
It’s a personal decision for me as the head of my house. Oh sure, she may watch a movie here and there, but broadcast television (I sure can’t afford cable!) holds the keys to unlocking a Pandora’s box in the heart of my girls I would rather see left untouched.
Just my thing, and it’s totally ok if someone disagrees.
On a side note, I don’t know a thing about adbusters, I just linked the tvturnoffweek.org thinking it was an innocent grassroots campaign to get folks to read books or something. I shoulda known it would be something poltical.
Mrs, Durff says:
I couldn’t agree more! I don’t even own a tv!!
I agree with us being created for relationship, too. You have said this more than once, although more eloquently than I. This truth is becoming clearer to me all the time. This post was great!!
19th June 2007 at 9:08 am
Dean Shareski says:
I’ll argue your points based on a couple of points:
Be sure to read Steven Johnson’s Everything Bad is Good For You.
Also, I’ve posted a few times about my thoughts on what I think is good TV.
http://ideasandthoughts.org/2007/05/29/the-lotgood-tv/
http://ideasandthoughts.org/2005/04/25/watching-tv-makes-you-smarter/
Broadcast TV is changing and I think considering Television to be bad is akin to saying the internet is bad just because there’s bad stuff on it.
As a fellow Christian, I too “prize my eyes” and feel obliged to protect my kids and myself but again, it’s about moderation making good choices. You seem to be saying that there’s nothing good on TV. There is a lot of great stuff on TV. As a family we watch a number of shows together and it does provide for great discussion, laughter and enjoyment.
Like you, I don’t have a problem if someone chooses not to watch or have a TV but I’m a bit uncomfortable with blanket statements.
19th June 2007 at 10:12 am
Dan Meyer says:
Given its lousy reputation, I’m glad most of all that t.v. is getting any discussion at all.
Just to clarify, what any teacher does in her home is outta my control and none of my business. Chris has the daughter thing going on and I’m not going to pretend to understand the ethical compromises one has to strike in that situation.
But in the classroom, I worry about any teacher who just casts off t.v. as blithely as both Chris and Mrs. Durff do in their personal lives. When Mrs. Durff drops the double exclamation point after “I don’t even own a tv,” I read it exactly the same as:
“I don’t even own a DVD player!!”
“I don’t even own an iPod!!”
“I don’t even own a computer!!”
Each of those spews out horrendous immoral crap.
But one of our most basic charges as teachers is to help kids make sense of the world around them, which includes the media that engages them. The same discerning, wheat-and-chaff-separating stance we take towards blogs in the classroom must be identical to the one we take towards t.v. Anything less is hypocritical, I’m afraid.
(Neither Chris nor Mrs. Durff have addressed their classroom stance towards t.v. so my accusations of hypocrisy kinda remain targetless at this point.)
19th June 2007 at 2:05 am
Kelly Christopherson says:
I couldn’t stay away from this one and once WordPress is ready, I’ll add to my blog. But, I agree that one does not have to watch tv to know what is going on today. My family has been without network tv for13 years with a few exceptions through the years. We watch videos and dvds and play games but no commercial tv. Now Dan, you comment that we need “to help kids make sense of the world around them, which includes the media that engages them. The same discerning, wheat-and-chaff-separating stance we take towards blogs in the classroom must be identical to the one we take towards t.v. Anything less is hypocritical, I’m afraid.”
Now, do have to watch something to know about it? You see, I’ve had students explain why what they watch is “good” – to defend their choice in viewing – without having spent time watching the same thing. The same as I do when they select a blog or piece of music or ….. I don’t HAVE to watch, listen, or whatever in order to have a conversation about it. I don’t particularly listen to many different kinds of music – some I find offensive mostly because of the assault on my ears.
I’ve heard that my children will be social outcasts, won’t be able to take part in conversations, won’t be as smart, won’t be as informed, won’t be normal, won’t, won’t won’t! Well they are as well adjusted as any kids can be. Oh, and they are well read, well versed in numerous other social activities and spend many hours doing various things besides watching tv. Instead of watching tv as a family, we play games of some sort. It has allowed us to keep in touch with our children – and we have 7.
It becomes a trade off and we’ve found that there are many other things to do instead of watch television. In fact, we have kids come to our house because we play games on Friday and Saturday – not watch tv.
Can I separate wheat from chaff on television? yep. Can my kids? Yep. They have demonstrated that they will not watch things that are not worth watching. It has become tougher as they get older but we still have the discussions and such.
We also have watched a few shows on the internet and that has been much better than on the tv. We can view what takes 1 hour on the tv in 35 minutes via the net. We still have to do the wheat/chaff thing.
Dan – as for the ethical compromises that one must strike when one has children – well – it happens regularly in some fashion or another – toothfairy, Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and a host of other cultural persona that one must tread lightly around. With 7 children aged 2 years to 15, my wife and I have faced a number of these in the eyes. TV is so minute that it really doesn’t even register.
Go Chris – read, play with boxes, make carton towns and all the rest. TV will become part of your daughters life too soon. And maybe, if other parents spent more time doing that instead of plunking kids in front of tv’s, we would see a difference in family dynamics. Maybe not!
19th June 2007 at 12:12 am
Mrs, Durff says:
You mention the time thing – yup. Broadcast tv has so many commercials…As for in the classroom. At our school, Broadcast tv is not viewed in the classroom. We do have a closed network which is used for announcements every morning. Further uses have not yet been explored…I just smile at the dicussion here. It was a day on which I needed that smile – thank you and keep up the debate!
19th June 2007 at 8:36 am
Jim Gates says:
I haven’t watched TV (except for a couple Steeler Super bowls and one Eagle Super Bowl) since 1993. I agree that it’s a waste of time. I used to judge the quality of my evening in half hour time increments. No more. I don’t care what is on TV, and I dont miss it. I hear people saying that they just HAVE to be home at a certain time for certain show. TIVO will change all that, but they will still find the time to site and veg in front of that TV to watch some silly reality show.
Imagine what this country could do if we didn’t waste our lives watching tv. Think of the hours that everyone would have to do SOMETHING constructive. What a shame that this culture has gotten so addicted.
19th June 2007 at 4:12 pm
Dan Meyer says:
The moral equivalence I’m pushing between blogs & books & music & t.v. — all empty vessels to be filled with either garbage or gold — is getting a loud *thbbt!* from the crowd. Clearly no one’s buying it.
So fine, let’s try this another way. Just so I’m straight: we’re all, like, lose t.v. because America (in general) and our students (in particular) waste too much time in front of it and what time they spend is pretty unedifying.
Am I clear on that? That’s the rationale?
So what else do we get rid of? Movies? Summer blockbusters? Music that talks about killing cops? Violent video games? Bloggers who threaten other bloggers? Free speech? Who decides? You? Me? The government?
Y’all don’t seem to realize the slippery slope you’re standing on, which would be merely provocative if you were my old college roommate and we were knocking back Blue Ribbons on adirondack chairs. But y’all are educators and you’re burying your heads on one of the coolest opportunities we have to preach some moderation, to play a part in the redemption of corrupt forms.
Y’all are taking yourselves out of the game and I’ve got only swells of pity for that.
19th June 2007 at 8:22 pm
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19th June 2007 at 2:32 am
Chris says:
Dan, you say…
So fine, let’s try this another way. Just so I’m straight: we’re all, like, lose t.v. because America (in general) and our students (in particular) waste too much time in front of it and what time they spend is pretty unedifying.
Am I clear on that? That’s the rationale?
No. It’s not. I was not making a political statement (aside from my original google trends bad joke about the trends i took the screenshot of).
My whole deal about television has nothing to do with anyone else but me. Here’s the deal.
1. I spent too many years on the couch watching way too much tv.
2. I can’t handle tv. That’s my deal and my problem.
3. I feel convicted when I watch tv.
4. Therefore I don’t watch tv. You’ll fuss at me for “dipping into Christian parlance” but that’s my base. For me, just me.
Look, tv is not inherently bad. This is not a medium-is-the-message discussion. This is just my thing. We as a family do better without it.
And truth be told, I can’t afford it anyway and antennas don’t work. So unless someone wants to fork out for cable, the entire deal is moot.
Please understand that this is just my deal, and I was never making any kind of broad statement about our kids spending too much time there, etc. There is no slippery slope here, sir, and I really don’t think I’m a snob.
19th June 2007 at 5:56 am
Dan Meyer says:
Right, that makes sense. And if I ever have kids, I imagine the leash I lash around t.v. is going to be pretty tight, hopefully without affecting my ability to engage my kids on the matter. In the world but not of it. That sort of thing.
The conversation here has since grown to include several other participants, with motivations and convictions varying. With my most recent comment, I wanted to suss out the underlying motivation for exterminating an entire medium (which seems to be Jim’s position).
19th June 2007 at 12:42 pm
Kelly Christopherson says:
Dan, What are you doing to engage kids away from tv? What options are you actually doing – what tangible things are you doing to demonstrate to kids that, yes, there are options other than watching television? Or do you just talk? Do you get past talking about the credibility of this or that programs? Do you engage kids in discussioins about health or morals, values or decisions which tv is not discussing.
Slippery slope? Burying my head?
one of the coolest opportunities we have to preach some moderation – kids are tired of being preached at by a bunch of adults. The kids I work with, the ones involved in community and trying to create programs to help other kids stay away from drugs, alcohol and get them away from tv are saying “Quit talking and start walking.” You want kids to do move, then they have to have the examples from adults. Otherwise it’s all hot air. They don’t need you preaching at them – they’re SICK OF IT. They want you to help them organize things to do, help them by advocating for them – NOT preaching at them. They want to be active, really they do. But, for many of them, there is nothing to do – they have no place safe to go so they stay home and watch tv. Action speaks louder than words – over and over I’ve seen this happen. Why – because I’ve made the choice to not watch but instead engage the kids in other ways. Never have had an empty gym or activity but it takes all kinds of time and dedication, hours spent getting money and grants and inviting kids and building a sense among kids that there are other things to do besides watch tv. Now, it’s trying to get the adults to buy in so that they can provide the example for the kids. To get the adults to go out and have activities wihtout drinking and the other things that usually happen. So k ids can see that it is possible. As for engaging them to talk about what they watch – I will suggest that I get more conversation about their lives during our games and events than you’ll ever get talking tv shows or whatever. Your premise for watching tv – so we can preach to them about moderation – another adult who thinks they know it. Show them they can do other things instead of watch tv and they will. Give them options and most will take them. Provide them encouragement and they will try. “Y’all are taking yourselves out of the game and I’ve got only swells of pity for that.” We don’t need your pity – it worthless – because as you’re talking many of us are doing – engaging and working with kids. Really, I pity that you truly believe that you can talk them into moderation. Kids watch your actions – and unless it jives with what you say – they’ll dismiss it out-of-hand. Try it, it just might surprise you.
19th June 2007 at 5:22 pm
Dan Meyer says:
Thought I was done with this but since you’ve put the ad hominem attacks on pause, I don’t mind picking it up again.
Our presuppositions are totally missing each other here, which makes debating the specifics as frustrating as you’ve experienced.
You ask me what I’m doing to distract kids from t.v., as if t.v., by its very nature, were a trap I needed to coax kids away from. But I regard t.v., at its very nature, just like I do blogs, books, free speech, movies, music, and a free-standing block of marble: totally innocuous.
Both personally and professionally, however rarely t.v. comes up, I push kids and friends towards shows that are interesting, thought-provoking, inspiring, and entertaining, shows that do more than just flatter their viewer, that do more than just pander to their viewer’s presuppositions of the world, shows that breach the realm of art. (If we can describe books, music, movies, and sculpture as “art” but not t.v. then I’ll need “art” defined for me.)
Even more enthusiastically than that, though, I push kids towards moderation, towards a varied life which includes education, recreation, exercise, and, yeah, entertainment.
From your comments, I gather you see t.v. standing opposite these goals (while, presumably, blogs, books, movies, and music do not). Or perhaps you think t.v. can achieve those goals but isn’t worth the cost of all these students sitting on their barcaloungers watching hours of junk every day. You’ve also mentioned a dissatisfaction that t.v. isn’t educational, which strikes me a bit like complaining that an apple isn’t an orange.
Anyway, our base suppositions are so far out of sync, our not finding common ground on this won’t surprise me. At the very least, you’ve gotta know that my friends and I are e-mailing, positively abuzz over this issue. We’re excited like I’ve rarely seen us by the vast potential of any medium to edify its audience. T.V., in particular, is undergoing an audience-driven renaissance (c.f. the Jericho nuts campaign) . We all think this is an exciting time to be alive and the more communication mediums at the party the better.
19th June 2007 at 10:28 pm
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